Internet Father Against “the Right to Be Forgotten”Added: Sunday, April 1st, 2012
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Father of the worldwide web, turned Google spinner, Vint Cerf has laid into EU web policy claiming its plans to regulate the Internet were absolutely impractical to enforce and even “terrifying” in future.
Vint Cerf explained that the so-called “right to be forgotten” on the Internet was actually not possible, so he ranted to the local press that it was impossible to delete data from everyone’s PC only because you want the others to forget about something.
This means that the European regulators have yet to explain more precisely what their “right to be forgotten” means, but the EU Commissioner Viviane Reding is willing to provide the Internet users new controls over data like articles or pictures on social networks, which appear about them on the Internet. However, it could cause some great headaches at Google, where Vint Cerf is currently working, as it would be forced to ensure that pictures or articles which an individual doesn’t like aren’t accessible any longer.
Meanwhile, Vint Cerf isn’t the only one with such point of view. For instance, the UK’s Deputy Information Commissioner David Smith claimed that he hadn’t got a clue what the new rights were actually about. He pointed out that “the right to be forgotten” seems to contain “an element of political gesturing”. Vint Cerf warned that it would be very, very hard – almost impossible – to force the worldwide web to forget something you don’t want it to remember. He’s right, because if you remove the original file from the web, you can’t be sure it’s clean now, because it is too easy today to download and copy and re-upload files again later. In other words, “the right to be forgotten” can’t be implemented technically.
April 1st,2012Posted by:
Sunday, April 1st, 2012
|He is correct. One on the web forever on the web.|
So the idiots that bitch about nude pictures, videos, etc. THINK before you do it.. THAT IS WHERE IT CAN STOP..
|posted by (2012-04-02 00:22:58)|
|I respectfully disagree.|
While I understand that you cannot prevent some information from being put online (let's say one particular video or photo or text) if a lot of people want to see it - you take it down, it pops up again, and again, and again .... that is not AT ALL what this "right to be forgotten" is about - I don't know if its opponent are misunderstanding it ON PURPOSE to make it sound stupid or are genuinely not getting it.
And while it would indeed be difficult technically (not difficult as much as requiring a completely new architecture from Google and others), it is completely doable (You cannot at the same time put in place systems for the MPAA, RIAA, Governments etc.. to remove links, posts and website that they don't like and make them disappear from search results and say that it cannot be done).
And while this right to be forgotten does not concern me as I am a very private person (If you Google my name you won't find a single result about me, and I am very proud of that), it will, in my opinion, become very important in a few years, when the Facebook & Twitter generation, which puts EVERYTHING online, will have kids, jobs, want to go into politics, ... and suddenly regret that EVERY SINGLE THOUGHT that they had is online FOREVER !! I know, I will probably be shot down by every next comment, privacy is a thing of the past, being a private person is stupid, if someone post something on the internet it's their damn fault, ... But A) what if one of your friends post something about you, is it fair that it will be forever online, in Google auto-complete for example ? and You have now 9 and 10 years old having Facebook account, so is it fair to have their reputations on the line from this young ? You haven't said or done something you really regretted at this age ? You would like you coworkers, friends, future friends to know about it ?
But no, you're right, Vint Cerf is completely right - and impartial (after all, he works for Google, so of course he has no bias on this subject) let's keep EVERYTHING FOREVER with NO WAY OF REMOVING A THING - if someone posts a lie about you, well too bad, it will stay forever - you could change your name maybe ? And have plastic surgery, with those new algorithms pointing their noses that can show you results based on facial recognition.
But what do I know, I'm old (25) and know nothing about the internet (after all I'm just a computer programmer / webmaster / network administrator) - it's a generation thing - ask a 13 year old who has a Facebook account, he will know better.
Sorry for the length of my comment, but PLEASE do not over-simplify complex issues like that.
|Matt2003 - Say that at 4chan, and watch how fast every little detail of youre life pops up in a few hours. Dont doubt people, and DONT think for a INSTANT youre life is complete secrecy.|
You forget, other PEOPLE see what you do. Look at the Global Media, Look at the stories they run about people. The free press, It doesnt disapear no matter WHAT media is involved.
If you emberassed about something, Either Stop being Emberassed or THINK BEFORE YOU ACT.
You sound like a Child, a Spoiled little Child. That thinks for a Moment, that everyone should Just IGNORE what you feel they shouldnt know.
In school, did you see what people did. Harassing others based on there mistakes. How do you think people LEARN... The internet is no different, The difference is, its in youre face. Not 30,000 miles away in some schools classroom or in a Office, or youre Nieghbors home.
Nothing has changed in 50 Years, its still the same. YOU Want to Censor what you dont want people to know. Its the same as the people that wanted SPECIFIC issues of Hustler burnt and destroyed because they were in it!!!!
What youre saying is "I dont like it, get rid of it!", What makes you so darn special, and above everyone else. If youre going to do something you will be Emberassed of later, DONT DO IT.
If youre going to post something, you might be emberassed of later, THEN DONT POST IT.
If youre having trouble with employment for a Comment about some one else, 5 years ago... THAT COMPANY IS DISCRIMINATING YOU, SUE THEM!!!!
Its no different than being gay, in that case. Difference is, youre only willing to hide it, not fight for it.
Just because you can do something, doesnt mean you should. Technologically, we have been able to commit Genocide since the 1600's. Doesnt mean you should... This is no Different. Controlling people and there actions because "You" dont like it. Not that its hurting some one, intentionally, and non-consensually.
Thats just BS!
|posted by (2012-04-02 01:14:36)|
|First of all I want to reassure you, that I didn't even for a second thought about committing Genocide on anyone lol.|
I'm sorry if I sound to you or others like a "spoiled little child". I thought I explained myself clearly enough, not to convince people that I am right, but to dilute a little the tone of the article that concluded that "He’s right, [...] In other words, “the right to be forgotten” can’t be implemented technically. ".
And about what you're saying about "how fast every little detail of youre life pops up in a few hours" if I post this on 4chan, you're making precisely my point : it shouldn't be that easy to ruin someone's life by exposing every secret in a few hours , just because you're bored and didn't like his post !
And I know about the reasoning that if I've done nothing wrong, I shouldn't have any secret out there that could damage me. That is very naive I think. I agree that it shouldn't matter, if I'm gay or straight, my political views, sexual fantasies, who I slept with, ... but the truth is it does ! And while it shouldn't be like that the reality is it CAN cost you your job, or prevent you from adopting a kid, ...
As to sue the people that discriminate you like that, good luck ! First you have to prove that they fired / didn't hire you because of what you posted - and I may add that the jurisprudence on those subject is against you - in the UK, US, and France if I'm correct, courts have ruled that it is legal to fire someone because they said on their Facebook pages that they didn't like their job - and while I agree that it is not a particularly clever thing to do, I'm ill at ease about it, and it doesn't sound good for other similar future arguments.
"Nothing has changed in 50 Years" : Not exactly true, because if 50 years ago I sat with friends and said something, well there was no chance that one of them would put it on twitter or Facebook in the next seconds, where it would stay accessible, and could still be read 500 years later. And while I realize it, and there is nothing on me on Facebook, twitter, Google+,.. I'm afraid for the generation that was born into it and doesn't seem to realize it.
About censorship, come on ... again with the over-simplifications. If my friend post a photo on Facebook or others, and wish later to remove it, is it censorship ? Would it be normal that Facebook says "Sorry, now it's our photo, you don't have any control over it" ?
About your learning by mistake, I would agree ... except that if it stays on the internet forever, then you only have ONE CHANCE, don't you ? Once you have committed your "mistake" by posting something a little to private (or not realizing that someone else posted something about you), then ok, you won't do it again, but it doesn't matter anymore does it ? It's online forever, attached to your name, for everyone to see.
I'm sure that during the time I took to write this response 3 or 4 other people commented that they agree with you and I'm a crybaby, but again : I think it is not a black and white issue, and should not be dismissed that easily.
|posted by (2012-04-02 07:30:12)|
I agree with you
|I wonder if matt3003 has the same view for those trying to obtain a firearm, or those going into positions of national security... people who want their 15 minutes of fame can certainly get it now... sort of like those drunk tattoos.. oO... any given file has to be stored somewhere,(that takes money) I think its disingenuous to assert every juvenile fart posted on a social network will forever be a couple keystrokes away... seems to me to be the typical big hammer appproach to a small problem. Don't forget the likely hood (hell historical certainty) this law if passed will be used for purposes much greater than what is currently being discussed (and I seem to remember some cases of internet bullying being heard in court already). I would say I'm shocked at how little time it took before different factions started trying to control the web, but that would be a lie.|
|oh that little jab against Vint Cerf is pretty cheap.. first it asserts by default the other side of the argument is impartial (HA!). But impartiality has nothing to do with either being correct on this issue or the reason he has an opinion on the matter..|
|posted by (2012-04-03 11:30:35)|
|Your arguments are good and are correct : if this "right to be forgotten" law passed, it absolutely could be abused, used for censorship, ...|
About your argument about "those trying to obtain a firearm, or those going into positions of national security.", do you mean do I think the data found on the internet could be used against them ? Because maybe not today for a firearm (and probably never in some countries, I may not be correct but I'm not even sure being mentally ill would prevent you from legally obtaining a firearm in every state of every country), but I could imagine someone being refused a post in the CIA, NSA or other security agency, or even in a government, if he could be seen congratulating Wikileaks for example on some old forum posts decades before. I don't think it's completely crazy to imagine that.
About the fact that storing the data costs money, you are right. Except that Facebook for example is only making its cash by storing and using this data (to sell it to advertisers, to attract new users, ...) I think their estimated worth (being calculated in the last few months because they are gonna go public) gives a good idea about the fact that keeping some personal, some might say useless, data about people is MAKING them money. (of course not all data, and it is a complex issue, but I do think that the cost of the storage of this data would not really be an issue - thought you are completely right to point it out)
Now I would just like to add that I don't think I have the solution, I don't think we should simply put a page on google for people to be able to remove any page they want lol - it would obviously be abused, used for censorphip, etc... But I think we are far from "my side" being as powerfull as the "other side" lol - as it is evidenced here in this comments. A lot of people don't care about their private life staying on the internet - most companies and government have everything to gain by leaving it there - the EU is here pretty powerless (as evidenced by the fact that they ruled a few years ago that the 3 strikes anti copyright infringement is illegal in its current form, but a lot of EU countries are doing it anyway lol).
About my "little jab" against Ving Cerf, okay, maybe it was a little cheap - sorry - but it was not as much because he is against this law - there are good reasons for being against it - , it's because of what he is saying : that it CANNOT TECHNICALLY be done - which is wrong, and while I would forgive a clueless politician that doesn't know what he is talking about, it is harder to do that with him. But mainly, it was because of the argument that is given :
"if you remove the original file from the web, you can’t be sure it’s clean now, because it is too easy today to download and copy and re-upload files again later"
That is 100% right, but it's also PURPOSEFULLY misrepresenting the idea behind the law, so as to make the idea behind the law seem stupid and big-brother-like - it's not to prevent someone from posting something - which is impossible, and probably a bad idea in the first place - it's about being able to remove old, useless, personal photos, videos, posts, ... that no one would re-post if it went offline, no one would notice, it would just not appear on Google anymore if you searched the individual's name - data that only concern one particular individual, not a celebrity, not a politician, and could be damaging in some circumstances to him and only him, not because he did something wrong, but because your employers, advertisers, and everyone should not necessarily be able to know your past opinions on every subject, every one you ever talked to online, your sexual orientation, preferences, tastes, every one of your friends, family members, acquaintances, every conversations you had online, ... for the last 50 years
- and yes, most of it could still be found if you dig deeper, yes it shouldn't be out there on the first place, but I still do think there need to be a real, smart, discussion about it. You shouldn't be in trouble in 30 years for something you said today about something that maybe is not even YET controversial, but might become a hotspot issue and cost you a job, a chance of having a family (in case of adoption demands), if someone google your name.
(For my part, I would add that I think I am pretty impartial, as I am a lone individual, not part of any group or company, without any "Google problem" (by that I mean you won't find any embarrassing thing - actually not a thing - about me by Googling my name)
P.S : about your "cases of internet bullying" side-note, I would like to hear more about it - what did the courts seem to decide ? What were the circumstances ? Kids posting bad things about other kids ? And the victims wanting the attacks or lies about them removed ?
|posted by (2012-04-03 14:42:07)|
|I am lost to hard to follow so guess no points are being made here.|
|posted by (2012-04-05 07:32:09)|
|I find it funny that people are so obsessed with erasing all of the embarrassing things about themselves online. Did you forget that you are a human!? Everybody f**** up and does stupid things. If someone tries to use that against you then they are a hypocrite.|
If someone tries to slander or blackmail you with false information they found about you online, what does that say about them?
|posted by (2012-04-05 07:38:13)|
|One more thing, If your employer fires you for something you said online that wasn't related to your job, then THEY ARE IDIOTS AND YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR THEM ANYWAY!! Haha!|
|posted by (2012-04-05 22:14:25)|
|Enough with the monster replies. IT all boils down one fact"MONEY" and the banksters and wall street and huge corporation are working to find a way to limit your rights.|
|posted by (2012-04-07 20:26:53)|
|Redhr, nuff said. Everything else is really irrelevant. The Illuminated ones want control. Total control. They've infiltrated every facet of our government and the one weapon we have to defeat them is an open and free internet. I don't care if they know about me. The can wipe out some of us, but they cannot wipe us all out and we will win this war on terror. But don't get it twisted. The war on terror isn't coming from any Islamic countries or some crazed maniacs. It is those like the the banking families who print money out of thin air and lend it to us with a heap of interest. The owners of the Federal Reserve Bank and the IMF. They want to control the internet and we cannot, we must not ever let that happen.||
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