US Citizens Don’t See Snowden as a TraitorAdded: Saturday, July 13th, 2013
Category: Recent Headlines Involving File Sharing > Ridiculous Criminal Trials
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According to the recent research, American voters believe Edward Snowden to be a whistle-blower, not a traitor, while the authorities keep trying to paint him as such. According to the survey results, 55% of respondents considered him a whistleblower following the PRISM and NSA revelations, while only 34% saw him as a traitor. Moreover, support for Snowden as a whistleblower was unchanged by divisions by political party, age, gender, income or education.
The second part of the Snowden / Guardian interview was published a few days ago, where Edward predicted he would be tarred as such. Snowden gave his reasons for the leak, saying that he hadn’t passed on intelligence to foreign governments and made information about the scandal public because of his loyalty to the Constitution, not in spite of it.
The recent survey also revealed that as many as 45% of respondents believe the American government has gone too far in its encroachment on basic rights and liberties, in the name of fighting terrorism. Three years ago, the majority claimed that anti-terrorism measures hadn’t gone far enough.
At the moment, even Republicans and Democrats mainly agree that the restriction of civil liberties has gone too far. Over 40% of Republican respondents believe they had gone too far, which is an enormous increase compared to only 17% back in 2010.
The researchers explained that it would be too naive to see the numbers mentioned above as anything but evidence of a rethinking by the people about the tradeoffs between security and freedom. This is exactly the primary talking point Edward Snowden hoped for.
July 13th,2013Posted by:
Saturday, July 13th, 2013
|They shouldnt see him as a traitor (because he isn't) even though the media and government demonizes him (even though he was just a whistleblower helping us). Its an unsafe life for someone that exposes or questions the us and its policies.|
|posted by (2013-07-13 23:46:15)|
|Most see him as a whistle blower.|
|that's because most americans do not know the meaning or how to spell traitor or treason.|
there is a difference between being a whistle blower and committing treason, and he crossed that line.
|posted by (2013-07-14 00:53:32)|
|Snowden is a hero. The real treasonous traitors are the 546 people running the country and their paid Gestapo working for them. They all need to be brought to justice.|
Hillary Lied Why American Patriots Died and Congress Fiddles While the Constitution Burns!
|Snowden spilled government secrets. What gives him the right to pick and choose what government programs he doesn't like or likes? He has a history of narsacistic grandiose behavior if anyone bothered to look at his history. Furthermore he had the information in question since 1998. Why know, why not then? Seems kinda odd to me. Totally agree with fusseltier @3 Thanks Sam great artical|
|The U.S. Government has used their own mistakes and missed opportunities as an excuse to erode the rights of U.S. citizens at an alarming rate. It looks as though the Government wants to take the easy way out, forget the constitution, and become totalitarian.|
|posted by (2013-07-14 02:57:09)|
|He DID NOT cross that line. Fusseltier says that America does not know what it means to commit treason or be a traitor?|
The crime of betraying one's country, esp. by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.
A person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.
So what it a betrayal?
Be disloyal to: "he betrayed them".
Be disloyal to (one's country, organization, or ideology) by acting in the interests of an enemy.
Snowden acted in the interests of the U.S. citizen, which, in theory, is NOT the enemy of the U.S. Government.
This makes Snowden a patriot of the people. Not an enemy thereof.
|posted by (2013-07-14 04:40:57)|
|Dubya's grandpa Prescott Bush committed treason. Seriously. If you all do not believe me me look it up for yourselves. A general named Smedly Butler exposed Bush and the others who were planning a coup at that time. Americans have short memories when it comes to history and many do not do their research. I have friends that have left the country because of its racism and the lack of a backbone that many of them have. They proved that when they blamed Usama for what happened on 9/11/01. Anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that what happened to all three buildings is impossible. Ed Snowden, he isn't a traitor. The demons who killed all of those innocent people that day, and all of the lives lost in Iraq and Afghanistan because of their crime and their lies to cover it up, they are traitors.|
|"Being a patriot means supporting your country all of the time, and your government when it deserves it."|
There is a difference between being a patriot and committing treason, and the NSA crossed that line in a way that makes the Nazis and the KGB look like schoolgirls playing hop-scotch.
Snowden exposed traitors, and in doing so, did the most patriotic act he could commit. If you think he's a traitor because he's the biggest patriot that works at the NSA, you need to read the Constitution and Bill Of Rights because our founding fathers said YOU should be in front of a firing squad for giving support to those levying war against our nation.
|As for those saying, that he waited too long, Think of it this way, He had to leave his family, friends and entire life. he know what he would have to do, something probably sent him over the edge, and he felt he had nothing else to loose, so he went for it.|
|Washington defines any act by an American citizen that contravenes its draconian measures on homeland security as treasonable and does not countenance any plea that such acts are in the protection personal freedoms. Americans read your history and you would have seen this coming. Read how the 'convenient events' of the Reichstag fire in 1933 and '9/11' enabled Hitler and Bush to pass sweeping measures - at a time when there was general apathy - to curtail personal freedom at home and to sanction the violent overthrow of any foreign regime that might be deemed beneficial. Go back even further.Read how Teddy Roosevelt had great difficulty convincing an apathetic public that Cuba, a Spanish colony,just 80 miles away should be seized because it was somehow a threat to national security. Then what happened, the USS Maine blew up with in Havana harbour with great loss of life and a finger is point at Spain, surprise, surprise! Try convincing any Spanish historian that the US didn't mastermind the whole thing.|
|Yes its the US government who are the real demons they will fall on their sword,and our governmentare no better bum lickers.|
|wow,. you know how to use an online dictionary... at least now they can find what the meaning is if they can read it.|
the question isn't if he is a hero or not, he worked for the government and had a security clearance.
he violated the law and leaked sensitive information.
that does not make anyone a hero, regardless if morally its right or wrong.
there is a reason there are security clearances and why people are supposed to keep things secret.
there is no way anything can be kept secret nowadays in the states to save the country from anything.
good thing WW2 happened long ago, or the allies would have lost if because of the cry baby boo hoo sympathizers that think national security is a joke and not necessary.
of course the US does things that are not right, but its sure a lot better that they are trying to keep the world safe and free than if russia or china was doing it... then who would you cry to? and if you did make those comments, you would be locked up and forgotten about before you could count to 10.
the UK does far worse than the US, but you rarely hear people crying about it because they are already used to not having so many rights and being spied on with a couple million cameras and satellites.
yes satellites, they use satellites to look at your house and property to assess taxes for many years... at least the US doesn't do that... yet.
|"the question isn't if he is a hero or not, he worked for the government and had a security clearance.|
he violated the law and leaked sensitive information."
He did it at the expense of the government, for the benefit of the people. You seem to think that the government is more important than us. They are not, they are liars and criminals that MUST BE EXPOSED!
|posted by (2013-07-14 10:47:21)|
|The center conflict is that you cannot vote for or against developments you are not allowed to get, if you find necessary, basic or detailed information about. The tradition of mistrusting Politics just keeps getting food and we keep ending up voting for the best sweet talkers instead of the best leaders.|
|posted by (2013-07-14 13:43:22)|
|The government derives its powers from "The People." The people gladly surrender some of their unalienable rights from God, within reason, for the common good of the country. What the government did passing unconstitutional laws with hidden agendas, meanings, and unread riders to make it "legal" was to usurp more power than "the people" were willing to surrender. Just because they say its "legal" doesn't "Make it so!" The American public has finally come home and sees what Goldilocks has been doing while they were away.|
All involved in these treasonous crimes that include the three branches of government should hang or face a guillotine for their crimes. Ironic that all this started on 9-11-2013 in Benghazi and the permanently etched blood stains on Hillary’s hands. Everything coming out since then flows from this one singularity.
Hillary Lied Why American Patriots Died and Congress fiddles while the Constitution burns.
Better check your facts and learn not to post before thinking..
He has a history of narsacistic grandiose behavior if anyone bothered to look at his history. Furthermore he had the information in question since 1998. Why know, why not then?
Any information you are spouting about his 'grandiose behavior' is the US GOV using the media to discredit and confuse the issues with the public. Also, where do you get this information that he had any NSA information since 1998?? - He is 29 years old...so, youre saying that he had all this info stored away since he was ,what? 15 years old?? YTouve obviously been suckered by some pretty bad misinformation.
|He did not leak any sensitive information, fusseltier. We've known since 2004 that they do this- certainly the Russians knew. It would be sensitive if the Russians didn't know already. They do it themselves- the only people that didn't know are the public. The terrorists know also, so they don't use such services. It doesn't catch terrorists and it's not meant to. They had plenty of intelligence to stop 9/11 but didn't.|
The "cry baby sympathizers" know that what happened in WW2 was because LOYALISTS allowed Nazis to do the same sort of treasonous tracking the NSA is doing. It's called tyranny and our government was built to be open and run by the people to stop such tyranny, not to secretly suck it's tit.
They aren't trying to keep anyone but themselves safe. They're spying on YOU, not terrorists. The only people dumb enough to use such services are the ones so incompetent they're harmless unless the FBI talks them into it and gives them a bomb like 14 of the last 17 "terrorists" the FBI has been shown in court to have GROOMED. Not HAMAAS- the FBI.
In case you hadn't noticed, even Russia doesn't OPENLY violate their own laws like we do. Our laws forbid cruel and unusual punishment regardless of what you call it or what nationality the victim is from.
Our country has put VETERANS above Al Qaeda on the list of terrorist groups. This stuff isn't secret to protect you, it's secret to keep you from noticing that YOU are their enemy and they are levying war on you(treason). They're blackmailing Congressmen to participate, they're spying on JOURNALISTS that hold them accountable rather than parroting federal talking points from D.C., they're harassing political groups through the IRS, they're running guns to Mexico and guarding poppies in Afghanistan, rolling out ARGUS drones meant to spy on civilians and track their associates in an area the size of a small town(15sq. mi.), they've listed protesters as terrorists along with religious groups and people that buy coffee with cash.
Get it through your thick skull that the public is the enemy. No information was leaked that interferes with defending the nation from foreign or domestic enemies. The information showed only that laws were violated and it was kept secret as part of an ongoing assault on the public.
He who would sacrifice freedom for the promise of security will deserve and get neither.
|Excellent post Yomamma|
Somebody mentioned the Nazis between the wars but what is rarely mentioned is that the allied representative put in charge of their banks after WW1 deliberately caused hyper inflation co ordinated with a group of businessmen who liquidated assets and then when the german currency was almost worthless they started an organised buying spree trying to get all the major german assets for a fraction of their value
This was a large part of the reason that the germans had a burning dislike of jews when WW2 came along when it should have actually just been jewish bankers they had an issue with. But that was the first clear example of an attempted financial invasion of a country by bankers and investors which didn't happen again on a similar scale until European and US businessmen divided up Iraqs assets at 5 cents on the dollar value to pay off their war debts which we had created and inflated in the first place
The initial Rothschild take over of germain industry that failed was followed in the mid 1930s after the german currency and economy was beating most other engineering economies on the world market another Rothschild employee was going around the world telling world leaders that they couldn't beat the german economy on a level playing field and that if they didn't want their voters standards of living to fall they would have to go to war with Germany again
And while we're going over little mentioned points of history who else gets tired of hearing that according to undisputeable official figures 12, nope, 10, nope 9, nope, 8, nope 6 million jews died in WW2 and that "winning the war" cost the UK/US about 1.5 million soldiers WOW
Thing is though, 7 million germans died, 1 million killed by the allied forces combined and the other 6 million killed by the Russians at the cost of nearly 30 million of their own people that again rarely gets a mention so who REALLY won the war in Europe? Certainly not western allied forces that's for sure
And then theres the war in the pacific allegedly ended by dropping the two nuked..... but once again the computer says nope
The Japanese actually surrendered when the Russians commenced hostilities with the 1.5 million soldiers they had amassed on their eastern front days after the nukes had dropped and in the surrender there wasn't even any mention of the nukes
It was later admitted that it was widely known that japan was ready to surrender months before the nukes were used and that Russian entering the conflict on the side of the US would be the tipping point but worse that the US actually wanted to drop the bomhs to show Russia what they could do and Hiroshima had been deliberately left intact with all the cities around it firebombed so it could be used as a showcase
In Nagasaki of the 40,000 men women and children killed only 250 were military personnel
All in all over 95% of the casualties from US firebombing of towns and villages made mostly from bamboo and wood were civilian men women and children
But I am sure very few US/european history text books mention any of that in more than a casual passing comment if at all.
A good watch for all americans and everyone else in the world too as the US isn't unique in its war for profit mentality is oliver stones untold history of the US. All of which is independently verifiable albeit not via "mainstream government approved" text books
Before someone criticises or defends a country, its morals and principles they should first actually learn what its values, morals and principles are from sources other than the government itself
|i agree with nobodey and yomommasofat Americans need to wake up and realize there's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes thank you snowden for bringing corruption to the light if you going to do it do it right....When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty why is the government spying on its citizens in the first place is the real treason|
|Persecute the messenger, huh? A traitor means you try to harm the US. Snowden hasn't done any of that. In fact, he's trying to point out what this Regime is trying to do to its own American people. Notice Russia doesn't even want him because he has no secrets to sell them. If you're buying into the State Run Media's portrayal and persecution of him, you've been brainwashed. Snowden's a hero for pointing out what is being done to us; something all of us in this community know more about than the layman.|
|really who cares i think most people dont see him as a traitor because most dont care what he didnt doesnt impact anyones life as a whole what did he do let people know about their country screwing them over news flash people in america already know that learn it every day of our lives and what can anyone do it about it rise up and overthrow a corrupt government lol let me know how that works out for you most governments are corrupt it is not just america so i dont see why people get so bent out of shape when one does what we know they all do|
this whole wikileaks thing is beating a dead horse it will never end like the so called mega scandal we the people who were not involved in any of what anyone that was a part of wikileaks did we dont know what took place and most only want to believe what they want to believe most want to see snowden as some kind of hero for the downtrodden fine see him that way he did what he did for his own reasons and i doubt any of them were for the people all we as the average people hear is hearsay and propaganda on both sides one trying to say why he is guilty the other saying why he wasnt
but i will go back to what i said before who cares let it end so the next so called scandal can start and net news has something else to go on about
|posted by (2013-07-15 18:01:00)|
|I have to agree with @fusseltier. The issue is not as grandiose and metaphysical as some of you believe. Sure, I am happy to learn of a classified program that further erodes my privacy and is potentially even illegal. However, that is not the point. Snowden is a traitor, because he signed a confidentiality agreement in order to get his security clearance. He breached that agreement and the terms of his security clearance by going to the media in the UK and revealing top secret information. It is not up to him to decide whether it is illegal, in or not in the national interest, useful or not useful. When individuals are allowed to make their own decisions on what should be kept secret and what should be revealed "for the greater public good," the result is no secrecy, and anarchy in areas of government that require secrecy to be effective. That is not to say that I support various government spying programs (what about FBI's Carnivore program, which is far more intrusive than the NSA's PRISM program) . . . merely that individual holders of security clearances cannot make the decision what to respect and what not to. Snowden had no right to do so, and instead of going to the media, he could easily have gone to one of the Congressional intelligence oversight committees to spill the beans, or a Congressman or Senator hostile to the current administration. There are many in Congress who would love to embarrass this administration, and could potentially correct any illegality without broadcasting it to the whole world. All Snowden accomplished was not only to confirm what most of us already assumed, but to tip off even the clueless terrorist groups that they need more operational security. Is that what we really think is important?|
And while I am on my soapbox, does anybody really think that cell phone calls and texts are private anyway? If you do, you are living in a dream world. Your cell phone calls are so easily monitored, and your texts are simple to get. If you want privacy, you will have to use couriers, dead drops, and pay phones (or at least disposable cell phones). Otherwise, assume that you are being monitored, either passively or actively.
|posted by (2013-07-15 20:44:07)|
|I seriously dont believe 34% of Americans believe Snowden as a traitor at all. I have not met one yet that feels he is and yes I live in the US. Maybe that pole took place in NSA headquarters. Then it might be accurate. No people think of him as a hero, but we have Fascist controlled media. Like Kokesh being arrested has not even been arraigned on any real charges yet, the only thing so far and I believe it was planted was mushroom!!!! but they want to bring charges of sedition and try him as a traitor now,I fear for the future of this country, a really do. The biggest traitor to our country right now is OBAMA|
|posted by (2013-07-16 00:25:16)|
|post @23 thank you, everyone else pay attention|
|posted by (2013-07-16 01:26:08)|
|The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere. -- Thomas Jefferson|
People, think about this. It's coming from the founder of the DOI. Whether you believe Snowden was right or wrong, sometimes these things are a necessary evil to maintain continuity in our society and our government.
|of course if anyone should be a war criminal its bush, but he had a law passed before the war that he couldn't be held liable as a war criminal. bush and cheney should have been prosecuted no matter what.|
there are always other things in laws that go unnoticed or misread.
there is also pork... but regardless, the US does have a pretty open policy compared to other countries where you know nothing of what they do and they lock you up and forget you for almost nothing.
its irrelevant that he was a whistle blower, there are other legal ways to bring that to the attention of the right legal authorities to investigate and fix the illegal and bad things the government is doing...
you just don't go leaking national security information like that, period.
and i just can't get how and why people still pick on obama, he is such a blessing compared to the previous administrations rule of terror. and for sure he was the only one for the job at the time compared to the idiots and liars that were running against him.
the biggest problem coming next is who will replace him since he can't run again.
americans have a short memory and will probably elect another republican, and then the country will go down the tubes again, and the cycle will repeat... the one thing for sure is that the US never learns from the past and repeats the same mistakes over and over.
just like the mafia and prohibition, all that accomplished was making the mob rich and powerful.
the same thing is happening with drugs. as long as they are illegal or not decriminalized, the only ones making money are drug cartels, gangs and lawyers... they have to take the profit away from them, and keep the money in the country. and the drug war is not doing anything but wasting billions of dollars.
|I've got a secret.In reference to a personal favourite movie I have.Too many Secrets.|
|posted by (2013-07-16 06:10:48)|
|Why is breaking the law "Top Secret?" They SPIED on Peoples cellphones WITHOUT A WARRANT. CLEARING breaking Constitutional Laws. Top Secret is SUPPOSED to be used for Military and/or Documents that can be used to hurt the COUNTRY AS A WHOLE. Being "Top Secret" does NOT give the Federal Government the right to break the laws. Meanwhile we are sitting on our collective asses whining about it instead of MASS protesting and telling The Government how it WILL do business. We can scream Fear of the people/government all we want but as long as we just talk about it, they'll continue to do what the hell they want|
|posted by (2013-07-16 07:31:37)|
|Very smart discussion guys. I feel that he finally saw specific cases where the information was used in pursuing other types of criminals, where a warrant would otherwise have been nescessary. Then and only then did he allow his distaste for the recklessness and righteousness of the agencies to force his hand. A non-disclosure agreement is signed usually before one understands the scope of activities underway. It is just a promise to lie and when it is used to conceal criminal activity it becomes a joke. If you can make specific examples where honest work was compromised you can call him dishonorable, but a traitor is someone who directly helps an enemy. It is really a page from '1984', but things are becoming so slowly and progressively crooked in the capital that we accept new violations of liberty as only slightly worse than before. In fact even the naive citizens of the Reagan era would have been marching in the streets over this.|
|@ezkapaid, your icon really brings back some good memories i saw it and had to sit back and smile ty.|
|posted by (2013-07-17 03:27:13)|
|As an American citizen I call Snowden an IDIOT! Who in here stupid enough with only an high school education would ruin a $250,000 a year job on the beautiful island of Hawaii, just to tell the world what we Americans already know about our Government. The Government is full of paranoid liars who scared of losing their jobs. Personally, I don't care if big brother is watching. I have nothing to hide. So Snowden just stuck that whistle up his own ass and if he thinks he did the right thing for the people he should have stuck around and fought to change the laws in the country he lived in about disclosure instead of looking for another country. He's proven he can't be trusted to hold water so no body is going to want him unless he got better information hidden under his belt and since China let him go I'm thinking he's already blown his wad.|
|@33 wow you did your research, and its not about having something to hide, its the fact that people have the right to privacy, it is the fact that spying on the people implies a form of ownership. You can be a slave all you want, but please move to a place where you feel comfortable like that and leave the rest of US that actually likes freedom and their constitutional rights alone, people like you are what helps Obama and Bush be criminals and empowers them.|
|When any society starts to think that laws should or do only apply to the worker bees that society is totally stuffed and that's what is being shown here and has been seen with escaping war crimes and infact in Americas history several presidents and their advisors known to have committed crimes have been pardoned fully by the next neo Nazi corporate monkey puppet|
Sorry, I meant to say president lol
The premise is reinforced with celebrities and the rich getting no punishment or a slap on the wrist for crimes that a poor person would be severely punished for and now with this people are argueing that its fine for their government to not have to abide by the laws that it IS supposed to operate under but that its fine for someone who uncovers that law breaking to be jailed
Lets forget its a government for a moment
Imagine that someone who works for google found out that google has been doing this exact same spying and leaks it to the press. Most people would want the bloke rewarded and google prosecuted.
But its not really any different, top secret DOESNT trump breaking the law as much as some aspect of government would like it to
It "SHOULDNT" matter whether youre the president, a senator or a janitor, if you break the law you SHOULD be accountable for that and the voters should ensure that that IS the case or reap the benefits of apathetically allowing law abidance to be something that only the poor and working classes have to do
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